What does it cost to build a life without God?
For Anh Le, it meant carrying everything – his identity, purpose, success, and morality, alone. Raised without religious commitment and shaped by a worldview rooted in self-reliance, Anh believed meaning and fulfillment was something you created and earned.
And for a while, it seemed to work.
Driven by ambition, relationships, and the pursuit of pleasure, he chased everything that promised satisfaction. But underneath it all, he was crumbling with anxiety, emptiness, and a quiet realization that nothing he built could hold the weight he was placing on it.
Then, unexpectedly, everything changed.
In this episode, Anh shares his journey from atheism and self-reliance to a living relationship with Jesus, one that redefined identity, restored purpose, and brought a peace he never thought possible.
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Guest Bio:
Anh Le is the host of The Real Life Radio Show, a nationally syndicated program airing on both Christian and secular radio networks across the United States. With over a decade in broadcasting, Anh explores the question: Is Jesus still real and active today?
Once an atheist shaped by science, self-reliance, and personal ambition, Anh now shares his story of encountering Christ and discovering a radically different way to live, rooted in relationship with God.
He is also a business owner and communicator passionate about helping others move from skepticism to honest exploration.
Resources Mentioned:
Host, The Real Life Radio Show – https://therealliferadioshow.com/home
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/anh.le.3192
• Twitter/X: @evangelistanhle
• YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@therealliferadioshow
Connect with eX-skeptic:
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Email info: info@exskeptic.org
Anh Le (0:00)
And I’m wagging my finger at them and I’m like, “You guys are just a bunch of goody little two shoes.” And you know what? In your Bible, it says that if you receive Jesus that you you become like a Christian and that’s all it is to be a Christian. It’s not to be like all good and high and mighty and, you know, be all like this good person so overly good. It’s just about receiving Jesus.
And I just did that. So I have the same status as you guys. And I thought that was going to tick them off because in the hockey team and when you, you know, point your finger at people and you do something like that, they would get mad at you and want to fight you. And that’s what I was kind of trying to do. And instead, they were like “Anh, congratulations. Oh my gosh, you’re this is amazing. Welcome into the kingdom of God, blah blah.”
I don’t even remember what they were saying. I was just like like oh cool. Like they like you guys accept me now. What is this? Yeah. I was like I was like, “You guys are so weird. You you’re I can’t wait to get off this mountain. I can’t wait to get back into the nightclubs because those people are normal. They’re not weird, you know, like these strong Christians. They were a peculiar people for sure.
Jana Harmon (00:08.766)
What does it look like to build a life entirely on your own, without God? To decide that meaning is something you create, that strength comes from self-reliance, that happiness, success, and identity are things you earn, achieve, or take if you’re strong enough. Hello, and welcome to eX-skeptic, where we share unlikely stories of belief and thoughtful advice from former skeptics and atheists who once tried to make sense of life without God. I’m your host, Janna Harmon.
Today’s guest, Anh Le tried to fully live out that vision. Raised without religious commitment, shaped by family loss, and immersed in a worldview that said only what you can see is real, Anh set out to build a life on his own terms through education, ambition, relationships, and self-will. God, if he existed at all, felt unnecessary, even irrelevant.
But over time, the pressure of carrying everything himself, identity, morality, purpose, success, began to crack. And without looking for God, Anh found himself confronted by a situation he never expected to face. Before we hear Anh’s story, if you’re new to eX-skeptic, I’d love to stay connected. You can join our email list for new episodes and resources by heading to our website at exskeptic.org.
And if you have your own questions and doubts and you’d like to talk with someone, you can also connect with one of our former guests who has walked a similar road. Email us at info at exskeptic and we’ll get you connected. Now let’s step into Anh’s story.
Jana Harmon (00:04.066)
Welcome to the Ex Sceptic podcast Anh, it’s so great to have you with me today.
Anh Le (00:17.098)
Dr. Jana, it is an honor to be here. Thank you so much for having me on your show.
Jana Harmon (00:22.136)
Wonderful. Anh as we’re getting started, can you tell us a little bit about you, about your wonderful radio show, and just a little bit about your life at the moment?
Anh Le (00:31.998)
Yeah, well, you know, we are at a pivotal time for our ministry right now. We have been on the radio for over 10 years. Christian radio from Salem radio to Wilkins broadcasting all over the United States of America. And, you know, our goal is just basically to discover if Jesus is real. Because I had an encounter with him. I discovered that, though I thought it was not real, that he is very real.
And I wanted to see, there more data? there more, like, what does Jesus do today? You know, we hear that he affected people in the Bible, but what is he doing for people today? Is it truly just a religion that’s kind of far, you know, kind of removed from people, or is it very hands-on? Is Jesus, like, literally alive? And I’m finding some interesting data. So, yeah, that’s it. It’s called The Real Life Radio Show.
I’ve been the host of it for 10 years and our team is excited because we’re getting ready to launch our video podcast on YouTube. And yeah, it’s super awesome stuff. Dr. Jana, we’re also on secular and Christian radio. And it’s super exciting to have our content in places that our syndicator has been waiting to get into this space and so far we’re in this space.
Jana Harmon (02:02.158)
That’s terrific. That’s terrific and probably by the time this airs that YouTube channel will be up and running and we will have all the links to your radio show and I’d love to know where you’re syndicated and we’ll put all that in the show notes and so that all, all who are listening can find you in those places.
So you mentioned there that you have come a long way in your understanding of God and Jesus and faith. So let’s get started back in your childhood because beliefs don’t come out of a vacuum, right? They’re grounded in a story of who you are, how you were raised, the people that raised you and the influences in your life.
So let’s start back at the beginning and tell me about your childhood, your parents, and their influence on you with regard to issues of religion or God or not at all.
Anh Le (03:00.925)
Well, I grew up from a great family. My parents were amazing. My dad and my mom, they loved each other very much when I was younger. I had everything, lived in a middle class family, know, always food on the table, able to go to school, safe environments all the time. And it just felt so good to be with my mom and my dad.
I’m Vietnamese 100%. So my parents were from Vietnam. They came during 1975 after the war, the fall of Saigon. They came as refugees to America. And I was just born in the midst of it all. You know, they met at a refugee camp. My dad comes from a Buddhist family and very, very religious Buddhist family. My mom comes from a Roman Catholic family.
Very religious Roman Catholic family, but she was like a rebelling Roman Catholic. She was like, not really like,
Jana Harmon (04:39.032)
She wasn’t having it.
Anh Le
She was, I believe in God, but not really sure, you know, and the nuns was, you know, the whole, you know, it was kind of messing with her a little bit there. So she didn’t like it so much because she was raised in the Catholic schools in Vietnam, where there’s already a cultural harshness in education that’s already there back then. So imagine they come to America, they don’t know anything and they’re just surviving, They really worked hard in order to provide me a great childhood. And, you know, so they were both a religious. and what I mean by that is that they were like, Hey, listen, we can fight about religion. So let’s, let’s just raise our son with no religion. And so they decided, you know, and that was the rules. That was agreement. didn’t even bring it. They even brought it up to me. They’re like, Hey, you know, uh, we’re going to bring you to different things, but there’s no pressure. You know, it’s not who you are. You know, it’s just, this is how dad believes. This is how mom has to go to church.
So, you know, I view church is very boring. Uh, I remember Catholic service was just like, you know, like, something. And I’m just like, my gosh, like, what is this about? Nothing was explained. It was very boring. It was like torture for me as a child. Then going to the Buddhist temple was another level of torture. You know, just like sitting there watching a gentleman in a robe and, know, obviously the monk, Buddhist monk, you know, hitting this, this little wooden turkey made like a drum.
Jana Harmon (07:24.823)
Okay.
Anh Le (07:26.677)
And it was setting a tempo of like prayer and meditation in the room. And I wasn’t really sure about all that. So I was exposed to religion, but to me as a kid, it didn’t matter anything. I was happy with my family and that my family was secure and safe. And when it came to believing in God, not really sure if there was a God, I just believed in whatever I saw.
My dad did try to raise me in Buddhism, so I’d say if any religion as a child that I grew up with, he would sneak me away, this is without my mom knowing, and he would pay me allowance to meditate. So I experienced that a little bit. And it was, I wasn’t very good at it.
I definitely didn’t want to do anything with religion because, you know, to attempt, like just for that long of time to even just behave myself and just sit still and, you know, for me as a kid, it didn’t work. It just didn’t work for me.
Jana Harmon (09:34.19)
Well, and it sounds like you did have wonderful parents or still do have wonderful parents, but I know that your family situation wasn’t smooth all the way through and that was really in many ways devastating for your life. Why don’t you talk about that?
Anh Le (09:51.306)
Yeah, yeah, well, it was in middle school. And, you know, there’s there’s some interesting things where my dad was dealing with some mental health issues. And it erupted in fights between my mom and my dad. And sometimes I would be sent away. My dad would have these episodes where he would be very manic about religion. So that further made me view religion as like negative. I remember this time where my dad was getting really into Buddhism and started arguing with his older Christian guy. It’s like.
They just started arguing and he was like kind of getting in the guy’s face and kind of getting angry. And I was like, what is, why do we got to do this? I was like, what is this all about? This is like so silly. I don’t see any value in this at all. So you guys disagree. And so again, another notch of why religion is completely useless in my mind as a young man.
Jana Harmon (11:15.266)
Right.
Anh Le (11:17.225)
and then when my parents went through a divorce. That was a moment I think that really shaped things because the family was like a nice boat. I was on a boat and then suddenly that boat was sinking and I jumped ship. Now even though they did such a great job, my mom did a great job. She tried to catch me in a sense, you know what I mean? Like she took care of me physically.
She did a great job as a mom, but something happened where, you know, it’s been a really hard thing where my dad unfortunately, he made a very bad mistake that he actually left me and my mom. Buddhism actually teaches that. So Buddhism had Siddhartha and he left his family to discover enlightenment.
And so I think in his mind, he was having some issues at home, definitely. But then it was kind of like, but it was, you know, issues at home plus, Siddhartha did it. So it’ll be fine for me. And it was, it was messaged to me that way. And I was like, this religion stuff is bonkers because if you’re going to go do that, like, that’s great for you. But like, what about for me? You know, what about Siddhartha’s kids?
Jana Harmon (12:30.636)
Right.
Jana Harmon (12:44.494)
Right. Right, exactly.
Anh Le (12:47.221)
You know like what what happened to them because I’ll tell you what like it was very painful that day When that happened it was the most painful moment and the most traumatizing moment of my life now It’s there’s many more people I’ve interviewed people with way more trauma Okay, so I look at that moment and I’m like that was so little little trauma, but it was enough It was enough for me to be like there’s no God because when he was leaving I made a prayer.
And I prayed and I said, God, if you’re real, like wherever you are, whatever you are, please save my family. Please stop my dad from leaving. Like do something. My mom’s not here. Do something, stop him. Like he doesn’t even know what he’s doing. And.
He walked out.
Jana Harmon (13:41.678)
How old were you then?
Anh Le (13:43.173)
I was I think about 11 or 12.
Jana Harmon (13:46.698)
Very, very significant age for a young man, I think, to lose your father.
Anh Le (13:49.587)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, you know, that’s the age where you’re just trying to figure out who you are. You kind of have more of an awareness of like, how am I going to be? Who am I going to be? And in that moment, I was like, I’m not going to be like them. You know what I mean? That was where I was like, OK, you guys got your religion and you guys don’t have your stuff figured out. Like, I’ll find out my own way. And at school, that’s what I was learning. You know, mean, Dr. Jana, were you learning that?
about school and were you in secular school learning about how like survival the fittest and you know we came from some primordial goo you know yeah okay so
Jana Harmon (14:35.678)
Absolutely. I’m a standard, standard protocol.
Anh Le (14:41.033)
Yeah, and I was learning about survival of the fittest and that really stood out to me. was like, survival of the fittest, I like that because that’s what I gotta do right now. I gotta stop boohoo crying and at school you gotta be tough because you’re in middle school. You can’t just go cry to somebody in middle school. So you gotta be tough and I just bottled up all those emotions and I just was gonna be tough. I’m gonna be tough. I’m just gonna make it through this and I’m gonna kinda be my own family and I started really looking. more into, I started really looking more into relationships with girls at this point, other people. I’m getting in trouble at school at the time now because I’m talking to people and just trying to, I’m trying to find family. I’m trying to find stability.
Jana Harmon (15:29.55)
Yeah, yeah. When your foundation is rocked like that, it’s just like you say, just the boat is broken and you don’t want to sink and you’re scrambling to find your way. And again, that’s just such a critical age for understanding who you are, your identity. And a lot of that is where you come from, but then that falls apart.
Anh Le (15:49.502)
Yeah.
Anh Le (15:54.771)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jana Harmon (15:55.809)
Yeah, that’s really hard. So you were moving into a more scientifically minded worldview, it sounds like. You were introducing that concept. It sounds like in your life you became a little bit more interested in the sciences and what that was and what that meant for reality and your view of reality.
Anh Le (16:20.677)
Absolutely, Dr. Jana. What happened was, as I was younger, I was like, hey, we’re learning that in biology, in chemistry, it’s like, okay, life is just what you see. And you can test what you can see. That’s what I’m learning in middle school, high school. And I’m learning that it’s not… It’s just, if you can see it and you can see an effect, then you can rely on it. But if you can’t see it…
You’re just guessing. And I started getting this thinking like, religion is kind of superstitious. Like it’s this superstitious, lucky kind of thing. You know, it seemed like that and I was kind of like wondering like, what is religion? And I somehow came to in my mind and I’m sure I was getting a message to this somewhere, that religion was just a manmade construct. you know what, that’s right.
I did learn it. It was like in history class or something like that. We’re talking about philosophy or something like that. That religion is just a man-made construct. That thought came to me. And that it’s just something basically that, not that God made man, but that man made God. And I was thinking about it, was like, you know what, maybe that’s what it is. Maybe like Christians and Buddhists, they just kind of made up this God so they could kind of, get through life better and just hope things are better, but really they’re just weak. That’s what I used to say. That’s what I used to think. I’ll say, I get it. It’s like people with religion, they just need like a crutch in life. Like they don’t even really know what they’re doing. And you know, it’s just like an excuse because of they’re not going to be survival of the fittest, you know? So it’s like, yeah, God and all this stuff. And, and, and actually those, if we can get rid of God.
If can get rid of religion, we’ll be able to do more useful things, is what I thought. Especially, you know, because I saw religion as a waste of time. I was like, wow, we could use time to do constructive things. We don’t need God. God is just like this thing that is going to waste time and it’s just something that make you feel better when you need help. But that’s not the way we’re made. I’m being told in school, it’s about, know, you got to survive. You got to be the best. Someone is going to eat your lunch if you don’t eat someone else’s lunch.
This kind of desperate, there’s only so much that goes around. And if you don’t get yours, like you, you’re going to miss out. So I, being Asian, where I’m already like in an environment of expectation, high expectations on education, like education is everything Dr. Jana, in an Asian family. If you had, I’m not trying to stereotype, okay, but.
My family, many other families, we really identify like, did you get good grades? Like to me to this day, it’s still kind of in me and my kids. Education is a big deal. And I’m sure because my family were immigrants coming here, they had to find a way to get into high level spots. But on my dad’s side, they’re all doctors, they’re all dentists, they’re pharmacists.
You know, so business owners, really powerful people that really highly valued and instilled education. And also my mom’s side, all teachers, know, and engineers and, you know, people again, very, very into education. So the idea was, is that I’m going to make sure I’m going to be like my dad’s side of the family because those doctors were respected, like.
And even I was asked no questions on everything. And, you know, they were like the doctor, the Dr. Phil on everything, you know, everything. And I saw that I was like, you know, I think I want that. And, but it’s going to be up to me to make it happen. And the thing about it as an atheist is like, it’s really about the whole world is based upon whether you are going to make it happen or not, whether you are good or not.
And if you’re not good enough, you better find a way to be good enough. And so there’s a lot of insecurity that I had growing up as a young man, because it’s like everything is dependent upon me. Everything is for me. So as you can see, I’m kind of turning into an interesting person here. Probably kind of selfish, super nice guy. You know, I’ve always been a super nice sociable person.
but definitely very self oriented, very selfish, very, you know, if, it’s going to help me to survive, if it’s going to help me to win, I’m for it. If it’s not going to help me to win, I don’t want it. And as far as morality, morality I was learning is that it’s like survival of the fittest, there is no real truth. You know, you’re learning that there is no truth. There’s no, you know, who says that it’s Kind of thing, you know, it’s only wrong if it’s wrong to you.
These are the kind of concepts that I’m learning in high school through friends, philosophy, or talking about things and like, kind of like, how do we even know we exist? You know, and if we don’t even know that we exist, then how do we know something is right? And how do know if something is true? How do we know if something is real?
So now, even though I’m into the physical and that’s the only thing I can hold onto, now I’m learning philosophy and it’s like, well, how do even know if what you believe is real? How do you even know if you’re even real? And they’re like, well, I think therefore I am. like, okay, that’s… It’s lot for a young man to try to figure out. So life was for me in a sense, very focused on just getting to my goal. And my goal was to become a very rich doctor, make a lot of money, have a lot of fun in college, a lot of, you know, I was planning to do, do like have a lot of fun, party a lot, be with a lot of girls. I got addicted to pornography as a young man. And so that also shaped my ideology. And I was like, Hey, you know what, a life with many girls before I ever get tied down. And I don’t even know why I didn’t get married anyways, because so many marriages end up in divorce. So.
I don’t know, I I was single my whole life or I don’t know. I was just kind of like not sure. There was no definite. As an atheist, I look back and there was no, there was nothing solid I could stand on. And that was unnerving. The only thing I could stand on was myself, which is already a mess. So, but nobody knew.
Jana Harmon (23:30.818)
Yeah, that’s, it’s really hard. mean, it seems like, okay, you call yourself an atheist. You’re, you’re the bright one. You’re the sober minded one about reality. You’re the scientifically minded one. You’re the captain of your own ship. And there’s, it’s, it sounds in some ways, very positive, you know, like this is a positive vision for life. But when you kind of pull back the onion.
A little bit that pull the layers back and you go, okay, let’s look and see what’s really in this world that nature is all there is and I’m dependent upon myself. And what does it really mean when there’s no really right or wrong and I’m directing my own path? I mean, how did that really affect your own life? You mentioned there that pornography was an issue. But certainly in an atheistic worldview,
There’s a certain view of even if you take it down to survival of the fittest, it’s like, you know, you know, people are means to an end, in a sense, you know, they’re for your pleasure, you know, they’re for your use. And what’s wrong with that? You know, I think I could see how in your young mind, you could easily justify that.
Anh Le (25:06.293)
Actually, your morality is forming when you’re a young man. You’re just trying to figure it out. And you know, my family had a lot of morals. like, my family were not like one night stand people. They were not like party people. They were not, and that’s kind of culturally with Vietnam. You know, it’s like, no, no, no, don’t do that. And if it’s done, it’s probably done in secret. You know what I mean? I didn’t see any of it.
Jana Harmon (25:31.662)
Mm.
Anh Le (25:34.226)
So I had this thing as an atheist like, hey, you know what? I don’t need God to be good. I’ll be better than those religious people. You can be good on your own. You just got to be a better person. You just work on yourself. It was a lot of self-improvement. But there was a funny thing is that, but then what is better? And when you’re a young man, I don’t realize, but if you don’t know what’s true,
You don’t know what’s better. So again, everything is contradicting in my life before because I was like, well, there’s no God for sure. Right. And I definitely, you you don’t see him. He’s not there. Ghosts and all that stuff. Like, no, it’s probably just some type of superstition. So I was very anti-spiritual. Anything you can’t see that’s bogus is probably something scientific that can explain it.
He’s the god of the gaps. I really identify with that. Whereas like anything you can’t explain, you just say, God did it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s because you don’t want to sit there and analyze it. I will analyze it. That’s what I would do. Late at night, here’s what it looks like in reality. Late at night, not being able to sleep, analyzing everything. Analyzing yourself. Did I do good? Am I going to do good tomorrow? Are things going to go well? How do I know I’m going to be able to perform well tomorrow?
Did you study well enough? know, like, it’s like, it’s kind of mind boggling. There’s no peace with it. And then when it came to pornography, which is really weird because if it really was okay, then it would be done much more open in the public. But why, even as an atheist, it was always a private shh thing. It’s always like this, like, okay, nobody’s looking.
I have my time myself, me and my computer. Do you know what I mean? Like, why did it have to be that? I didn’t know that even though, and like afterwards, it was like, I was trying to justify it because you feel maybe this natural shame or whatever it was, but I learned younger that, you know, nobody knew. And then if they did know, or they did bring it out, remember as they got older, friends would talk about it and it was like, okay, well, that’s like normal. You know, I’m like normal.
That was what life was about. Having the dream woman, having the dream car, having the dream house, making sure that I was doing better and surviving and thriving and being super happy. And I believed that that would make me happy. That those who have will be happy. Those who survive will be happy.
Cause I knew that before during the divorce. I was not happy. And actually, it took a lot of my childhood happiness away. It really altered things. you know, that’s what I really thought. So, morality was, does it make me happy? It’s good. Does it not make me happy? It’s probably bad. That’s really bad morality,
Jana Harmon (29:44.011)
Well, I think it’s a very common view of morality, isn’t it? It’s about, you know, what will make me happy.
You were moving along in your life and you were doing what you thought to be all the right things and all the right things for you, let’s just say.
Anh Le (30:29.8)
Pretty much. I’m just being honest.
Jana Harmon (30:39.52)
But so where did it start to trip up for you? When did this master plan of education and money and women and cars and all of that start to break down.
Anh Le (30:44.765)
So I’m learning in college that it’s like, well, so all the fit is the most dominant animals like, you know, in nature are the ones who spread their gene pool the most, the most dominant ones, because the most dominant genes are the ones are going to rule. So that’s why things are fighting because of that stronger ones are going to be able to mate with the most females. And I was just like, huh, that’s, that’s, that’s what I want to do.
I know it sounds so silly, Dr. Jana, but that was actually, I didn’t ever verbalize this. This was, and this is what’s, this can be going on behind the scenes in someone’s mind, but these are the desires that are being built, you know, as a young man. And so I would get in relationships with girls and I somehow always found myself somehow, at some fun church function, of all things. And I’d always be attracted to, and a Christian girl would always be attracted to me. And it was always a Christian girl. And what happened was, is that I would get in a relationship with this girl, and then, unfortunately, like these are really innocent girls. And unfortunately, because of what I saw, I was demoralizing them and actually turning them towards atheism.
Like I’d meet them at church and they think I was, I didn’t say I was Christian or not, they never asked. And really, it was, but here’s the thing, here’s the reality. I was always with a girl that I could get, but I was always hoping to get something better.
Do know what I’m saying? So I’d be with a girl and I’d want to do all these things that people usually wait till they’re married. But so the girl’s thinking I’m in love with the girl, but I’m actually is experimenting what I see and using the girl.
They were really good girls. They weren’t toxic. There wasn’t any problems. There wasn’t any fights. I just disappear and break their hearts. Like, Hey, it’s not going to work out. And the truth is, is because with pornography enough is never enough.
Yeah, so that’s what’s happening. And unfortunately, I broke two Christian girls’ hearts very severely. One was in college. She really, and I said I loved her. She said she loved me. Real sweet girl and we had a long distance relationship in college as we left high school, two high school sweethearts going into college trying to keep it together.
And I convinced her to, and I gave her a promise ring, not an engagement ring, okay, a promise ring to marry her. And it was all being emotional with her, but I knew that it wasn’t enough because I still wanted what I saw. And unfortunately, you know, I convinced her to move to Colorado from Florida.
and she dumped her scholarship for me.
Jana Harmon (37:39.769)
my.
Anh Le (37:42.323)
This is dangerous. She goes against the wisdom from her parents. And her parents are like, what on earth are you doing my child? And she’s an adult. and she falls in love with me, she’s bragging about me, I’m the greatest thing on earth. She follows me to Colorado, we move in together.
We don’t understand anything about how this is going to work.
And I’m seeing clubs. I’m seeing there’s other girls on campus, you know, and I, gosh, what a jerk. can’t believe I was a jerk. I can’t even talk about this. I, I, what a jerk. I just want to smack that kid because she gave everything for me, Dr. Jana. She really loved me a lot. And, she, she came across and, and, and I ate and was like, Done. You know, I basically had everything that she gave. And then that promise ring was abused because I just was like, hey, you know what? I don’t think it’s going to work out. I think we need some time apart. And like immediately, I was with another girl.
This wrecked her bad. And I didn’t understand, cause like my heart too started getting wrecked even though I broke up, even though I was like, you know, I’m done, everything’s good.
But something was tied from me to her and I started feeling depression. And so this survival of the fittest, this spread your genes, this behavior is beginning to tear my insides.
I couldn’t do it. That was the first time I was getting really bad grades, Dr. Jana, and it was bad. I’m like, my gosh, this is, and for me, that was everything. I needed to get A’s, maybe B’s, but in order to even feel good about myself, I could not live with a C or lower. just, it would be game over. And I know that might sound silly to people, but that was what was going on in my heart and how I was raised. And I started really failing that class. And
Jana Harmon (41:56.046)
Sure.
Anh Le (42:03.953)
I did everything. I was basically at the teacher’s feet. Like, please, like, help me. Like, somebody help me. Does somebody help me? And this whole toughness began to melt. You know, just, you know, just make it happen. I cannot, I can’t, I’m not made for, I’m not made for calculus. So I’m running into walls here. I’m super depressed. I’m struggling with anxiety every night. And I remember like,
My mom was like, hey, know, are you sleeping well? My mom would always be really worried that I would have the same mental illness as my dad. And so there was that pressure. And she was like, well, know, the precursors when you really, he would always stay up night worrying he couldn’t sleep. And I was like, argh.
Jana Harmon (42:53.772)
Yes.
Anh Le (42:55.913)
And I was like, no, am I? And I didn’t have anything to grab hold of. That’s the thing about atheists, you can only grab onto yourself and reality. Everything else is just like, it’s either good for me or not good for me. And I was nice and trying to figure things out in life, but there was no meaning. that’s another thing, like what is the meaning of life?
You gotta make your meaning. That’s what I was told. There’s no meaning. You’re just this primordial goop that just kinda came together. So you just gotta kinda evolve your meaning, your purpose. And the meaning is to survive. The meaning is to find happiness. And that’s about it.
Jana Harmon (43:45.523)
And yeah, your facade was, was crumbling a little and the trail, the trail to happiness was leading you astray. You’ve, I guess you were, yeah.
Anh Le (43:58.388)
What you know is really strange to me is that I had everything that would make me happy. started meeting girls at the clubs and it was just like, you know, and like we’re getting closer to that level. That was all life was about and it was so empty and so unstable and so worrisome. I had so many things like, I gonna be good enough to make it? Am I gonna be able to truly be that guy that everyone looks up to? Am I gonna be able to succeed? Am I even gonna be able to make money? How does that work? You know, am I gonna really like doing this job or something repetitive my whole life? Like, man, this is like, how am gonna do this? How is this gonna work? And I…
In other words, what is the definition of a man? How do you be a man? What is it to be a man? And my dad kind of became absentee at that point. He’d see me here and there. But, you know, so I was not really sure. I didn’t know where I was going. I don’t know what I was doing. And that depression really got me, got me really bad.
Jana Harmon (47:32.345)
So you’re in this place where you’re seeking after everything that you’re supposed, the world is telling you, that the world will satisfy and it’s the reality that you live in, in this dog-eat-dog kind of naturalistic universe. You’re making your way, but it’s not all that it was meant to be for you. And you have found yourself, because you broke a girl’s heart and you’re feeling depression over that, you’re having emptiness in your life. So…
and you’re depressed. So does that lead you to a place of openness to the possibility of, well, maybe there’s something else. there something different? Is there a different way? How does, you know, I’m just wondering how your road moves in the direction towards God. Yeah.
Anh Le (48:02.996)
You know.
Anh Le (48:18.837)
You would think that. You would think that, Dr. Jana. You would think that that would be a point where I’d call it to God, but no, I don’t. So I’m really depressed. I’m driving home and I see 777 on my odometer. And though I was against superstition, I had this superstition on the number 777 that it was my lucky day. So I’d be like, wow. And it made me feel just a little bit better. Just that one moment. It was like an inkling of feeling better.
Jana Harmon (48:25.225)
No, no, doesn’t happen there. Okay.
Anh Le (48:48.713)
And this thought suddenly runs through my head. Why don’t you go to church? And I was just like, like really go to church to go to church? You know, like, right. And I’m like arguing with this thought and I was like, that is, that is dumb. And I’m driving right by a church. So right when that voice went through, I saw this church right on this side, right here. I’m driving and I’m like, church, yeah, get brainwashed.
You know, and I’m just like kind of like, yeah, I’m gonna go to church. And you know, those guys are brainwashed. These guys are like cults. They’re gonna try to convert me. They’re gonna try to be like, oh, you need to be a Christian to be saved. You’re go to hell. They’re gonna try to scare me into their religion. You know, they’re gonna, they’re just gonna, they’re just such manipulative people. I hate this. That’s what I always thought. And so I really was anti-Christian. Now, a couple of weeks later, I’m feeling depressed and I get that same, I go by the same church, but it’s on this side, because you know, it’s the road coming home.
Jana Harmon (49:18.915)
Yeah.
Jana Harmon (49:47.555)
Right.
Anh Le (49:47.974)
And I hear that voice, like it’s like a, it was like a thought. It wasn’t like a voice, it was like a thought. It was like, why don’t you go to church? Like go to church, why don’t you go to church? Why am I even thinking like this? You know, and I’m just like, you know what? And I was like, there’s definitely no God. But you know, if there was a God, he definitely wouldn’t like me. He would be against me. So if there was a God, like I don’t, I don’t want to meet him. I don’t want to meet him.
You know, and then, and I somehow came around to like, in my mind, I was like, you know, but if there is a God, like just in case there is one, like, you know, I was kind of like, why am I being such a good person? Like, why am I the designated driver? Why am I not getting drunk and sleeping with multiple women? Why am I not, you know, getting into the fights as much as everybody else? You know what? This is my time to really just stop being a good guy.
And I was like, but before I do that, if there’s a God, I’m gonna pay my respects and then I’m gonna dive in the deep end and just, you know, I cause I feel this pain, I feel this depression. So I go to church and I sit in the back. This gentleman by the name of Jack James, he touches my shoulder and he’s like, Hey, how are doing? I was just like, Hey, like we’re at church. Like what, what? And then they’re like, everyone’s like talking to each other. Like this is, this is different. Like people are talking to each other and you know, like people were like kind of asking about me. Okay. Well, hi sir. How are you doing? And
Anh Le (52:13.173)
He’s like, hey, well, how am I? you go to CU Boulder? My daughter goes to CU Boulder. And I was like, daughter?
Jana Harmon (52:19.381)
Ha ha ha.
Anh Le (52:21.501)
I was like, well, that’s not really the reason why I’m here, but I meet his daughter. His daughter is gorgeous. And I’m just like, hi, my gosh, okay. You know, we’re getting closer to that mark. And I was just like, great. And so she invites me to this Christian retreat. So here’s atheist and I’m like, yeah, I’m just going to play it off like, like one of them, like I always do. And then I’ll just jump in and, and they put me only with the guys this time.
And I’m thinking you guys are weak little weaklings. But there was something interesting about them is that they were strong and it seemed like they were solid and that they had, they were somehow strong though that I was trying to judge them as weak, but there was a strength in them that they kind of knew who they were. They had this kind of unique thing where they knew who they were. And I thought that was, I thought that was really, that was a really cool thing was that they knew who they were.
And because of that, I just knew one thing is that they knew who they were and I didn’t know who I was.
You know, because you have to define yourself as an atheist. You have to figure it out. You were not created. You have to create yourself. But then this pastor is like, young people, we’re gonna go ahead and grab our Bibles and we’re all gonna go spend time with God. And then we’re gonna come back and share with what God shared with us. And I was like, who? We’re gonna go spend time with God. That’s hilarious. We’re gonna spend time with a mythical figure in the sky. This, and I started sweating. I was like, what are they doing? What is this? I don’t know anything about this.
And I’m scared to tell them that this is stupid. They’re like, I’m not gonna do this. Like, what is this? So I’ll like, pastor, you have a Bible? And then finally at the very last moment where we’re spending time with God, this is awkward.
But I don’t know what else to do. I open up the scriptures and it says in John 1:12 it says, to all those who receive and believe in his name, he gives them the right or the power to become children of God. And I was like, it just clicked. I was like, wait a minute. I can use this against them. I’m going to show them, according to this, like you can be at the same level as them because they think they’re so high and you know, like they think I’m so low. Now, they didn’t think that.
But I felt that way for some reason. I felt inferior to them. And looking back now, it’s probably the Holy Spirit talking to me. But I was just like feeling this need and I was like, well, you know what? If I receive Jesus, just to kind of show them, play their game, I’m going to show them that there’s actually like, it doesn’t even make sense, their religion. So I was like, Jesus, if you’re real, I receive you and I believe in you.
I shut the Bible and I went back and I was excited. I had something to share finally, because every time I didn’t have something to share, so it was embarrassing. And I come back to that group and I’m like, hey guys, like it comes to my turn. And I’m like, you goody little two shoes. I can’t believe I said that. And I’m wagging my finger at them. I’m like, you guys are just a bunch of goody little two shoes. And you know what? In your Bible, it says that if you receive Jesus, that you become like a Christian and that’s all it is to be a Christian. It’s not to be like all good and high and mighty and be all like these good persons so overly good. It’s just about receiving Jesus and I just did that. So I have the same status as you guys.
Jana Harmon (01:00:59.138)
Hahaha
Anh Le (01:01:01.459)
And I thought that was gonna tick them off because in the hockey team, and when you point your finger at people and you do something like that, they would get mad at you. They wanna fight you. And that’s what I was kinda trying to do. And instead, they were like, Anh! Congratulations! my gosh, this is amazing! Welcome into the kingdom of God! I don’t even remember what they were saying. I was just like, cool, they like, no, why don’t you guys accept me now? What is this?
I was like, you guys are so weird. I can’t wait to get off this mountain. I can’t wait to get back into the nightclubs because those people are normal. They’re not weird, you know, like these strong Christians. They were a peculiar people for sure. But at that moment, I did not understand what I was saying and I got mad and now I’m starting to get angry. And one of them starts getting, he didn’t get angry, but he just kind of lost it. And he goes, you know what, Anh, by the questions you’re asking, I’m really beginning to doubt that you have faith at all.
Well, I don’t know why, but I’ve been called names in the locker room. I’ve been made fun of in public, but he publicly embarrassed me in front of all the other Christian guys, and that just ticked me off. And so my hand locks up and I’m about to hit him and start a fight. But what happened was, is I had like a fifth dimensional experience. Something happened to me.
something occurred where suddenly, Like I saw like a vision of like a quarter go into the air, like it flipped, know, when you flip a quarter and it was going in the air and it like stopped midway. And I knew when it stopped in the air like that, that I understood conceptually that time had stopped. And I heard this booming, amazing voice and it wasn’t here, it wasn’t around me, it wasn’t in my head. It was something that was coming out of here with all the anger, with everything that was coming out from here. You know, like when you get angry, you’re just like,
You know, it’s like you’re holding it back. This voice comes within and it said, I know you.
Jana Harmon (01:05:13.602)
Right, sure.
Anh Le (01:05:23.451)
And the way that this voice spoke to me, was like I was so naked and bare. But then yet loved and understood. And I felt misunderstood by that Christian guy, but I felt understood. It was like the opposite effect and it began to calm me down. This presence began to calm me down and then this thought goes through my head. What would Jesus do? I’m like, what would, why am I?
Why am I thinking these thoughts? know, like, where is this coming from? What would Jesus do? And I had enough time to even kind of laugh about that thought. And be like, that’s so corny. That’s WWJD. Yeah, like the stuff that Christians put on their wrists. Yeah, yeah. What would Jesus do? And so there’s enough time for me to stand in this presence and be like, okay, so, well, know, Jesus probably wouldn’t be angry. I probably wouldn’t hit him for sure. And he probably wouldn’t even be angry. Like he would be probably very calm. And that same voice that spoke said, after I said, you know, he probably wouldn’t even be angry. It says, because his heavenly father knows him.
and I know you.
Once that moment hit, it was like, wow, I just feel so understood and so loved. And I’m understanding something about Jesus in this moment, who is just like this guy who was like a crazy guy or some guy is a cult guy, a cult leader, he knows what I thought. And I’m having this encounter. And then I blip back into time and space. And I just, I looked at him and I was like, I’m sorry you feel that way and it’s all good. And that weird awkward tension was just quiet the whole rest of the way down that mountain in the car. And I looked out into the, out the window and I was like, my gosh, Jesus, you’re real. And that’s when my prayer life started. I started talking to Jesus.
Jana Harmon (01:07:53.935)
Anh, oftentimes, I hear the skeptical voice saying, how did you know that that was Jesus? Did Jesus just reveal that to you? You just knew that you knew? Sometimes knowledge is beyond even words. You’re just given a sudden revelation of sorts. that what happened to you?
Anh Le (01:08:30.101)
This was a whole discovery process for me, Dr. Janna, that I, well, first of all, it was, know you. It was almost like Father God. And I was learning a little bit about Father God up on the retreat. But it was, this wasn’t like, like, yeah, I recognize who you are. This was like a presence I had never known before. This was like, whoa, whoa, what is this? And I just knew that whoever this was loved me and knew me and had this knowledge about me, that was like so intimate, like so, it’s like something you’ve always wanted. You’ve always wanted a person to understand you at that level. You’ve always wanted someone to be like, you know, like to understand you, like like, I get you. That type of love is what I felt. I was in a pool and river of warmth and love, and it was saying, what would Jesus do? And it was saying that I know him. and I know you and so that’s what it’s like, this is something to do with this Christian faith here. This is like something here, there’s something here. And I thought about, wait, wait a minute, what did I do back there? Wait a minute, I received Jesus.
Wait a minute, like he’s, wait, he’s real?
Wait a minute, if Jesus is real, what does that mean? What does the rest mean? And so I went back to church the following Sunday with questions at that point. And I had to learn and the pastor’s daughter walked me through, amazing woman of God, Kathy, walks me through a Bible. And she was like, well, this is how the Bible’s written and God will speak to you in this Anh, she would say.
I’m like, God will speak to me in this? God will speak to me. He said, yeah. I was like, that’s awesome. All right, let’s do this. see. I want to see. Let’s see if this is real. And the Lord started speaking to me. And it was like the same voice. As I read it, I recognized it. was like reading your father’s letter or something. It’s like, oh, I know this person. It’s the same essence. It’s the same voice. It’s the same presence. There is something I’m experiencing and then I begin to like put it to the test. I begin to be able to sleep better.
I began to be able to perform better. I began to like, you the Bible says like, do not worry. And I’m like, my gosh, I’m actually doing wrong by worrying. Like, my gosh, my mental health got so much better. And I realized God is real. God is real. And it changed, this changed everything for me. This was a huge game changer for everything for me. And life became so much more peaceful.
So much more. I realized that I didn’t have to create myself anymore and that I was created.
And that was, Dr. Jana, I don’t have to make myself no more. I don’t have to be anything. The Bible says that I’m accepted and beloved. Like I’m already accepted. It doesn’t matter if you reject me. that was a big deal. I didn’t like it when people rejected me because I felt like it wasn’t good enough. You know, so now it’s like, it doesn’t matter. Like if I fail, if people laugh at me, I can actually just be free to mess up because of something called the grace of God. Like it’s not survival of the fittest.
It’s about being blessed and taken care of. It’s about being home. This is awesome. Wait a minute, I don’t have to be a man and work hard and grunt myself through life. God’s gonna provide for me and I just gotta be a man and he just, this is awesome. I’m not gonna be alone anymore? Heck yeah, this is amazing. I don’t have to be alone anymore. I’m not alone anymore.
Now don’t have to go to people to be a sounding board. I can just go talk to my heavenly father with scripture, of course, with years, like ages of wisdom.
Jana Harmon (01:17:02.222)
Now it really does sound like, I think it’s going from darkness to light. I mean, it truly is death to life. You have crossed over from death to life, as John says. And so when you find Christ and the difference is stark. And that’s why I love these stories is because that’s what you’re telling us is the life that you led, the life that you knew, that you believed to be true.
The best way to go about life. The only way to match with reality, the stark view of reality. But yet, now your vision of the world has changed. The reality of the world has changed. There is something supernatural. There is someone transcendent who informs you and everything about you and who knows you to your bone marrow. He knows you and he loves you anyway. And he guides your life. But I can hear some somebody saying, but that was a personal experience. And yes, it works for you. And yes, it calmed your whatever and gave you purpose and all that. how do we know that it’s true?
Anh Le (01:19:03.379)
For the skeptic out there, I get it. I would be skeptical too. But, you know, you can be skeptical about a really nice restaurant and that’s really good. and I’m telling you it’s good, you’re like, you’re just trying to sell me something. I’m going to be skeptical on how good that restaurant is. You’re just selling it. Well, know, there is sometimes where people are trying to manipulate you and sell you on something. But there’s something where someone truly gets something that’s really good, and they express it, and they’re free to express that. That’s different. That’s not manipulation. You know, the peace and the joy that I experience, I don’t just experience it when I’m talking about it. I experience it all the time. in my life.
This is something that just for even just for peace, I would have given my life to Christ just for the peace. If I could have just gotten peace, that would be enough for me. But it was so much more. And I was surprisingly shocked on how much faith in Christ, and it’s not just faith in Christ, the reality of Jesus, the reality of Jesus not only being just a belief, but a real relationship. Like he will talk to you. Like he will work with you. actually, will, the Bible says that he will come and live in you. Like seriously, it’s real. The Holy Spirit will abide with you. Like I have someone today who knows the future and who knows my past and knows even past beyond. And I’m like his son. Like I have the access to everything.
And this is the most amazing thing in the world. you know, if you’re skeptical about it, I’d say, dare you to try it. I dare you to just say, Jesus, if you’re real, I receive you and I believe in you and then like, see what happens. You know, like see, like, and be, I wasn’t even genuine about it. And I was doing it to prove a point and he showed up. So, because he’s real and he knows.
He knows about the future. He knows about your future. He knows about my future. And he has it all laid out. What I love about life now is I’m no longer trying to make myself. I’m trying to just discover what he made for me. I’m just trying to discover. I’m not trying to make it all happen. I get a rest. I get to just walk into it. Yeah, I work, but like it’s a lot of just trusting in what he’s doing. You know what I mean? And so it’s so amazing.
Jana Harmon (01:24:00.791)
Your life is truly a testimony to the reality of God. I mean, truly, in every way, it sounds like the way that you looked at life and lived life is very, very different. It’s very, very transformed. And it’s hard to push back against what you’re sitting there and not only telling us, but the way in which you’re living and experiencing life. It’s just, it’s phenomenal.
But we as Christians are called to to be Christ and to demonstrate Christ to show Christ to others so that they can get a sense of what it might look like. And and I wondered how you would advise us as Christians. Obviously you’re a man of words as well. You sit behind a microphone and you’re declaring and you’re proclaiming the truth and the reality of Christ. How could we as Christians really engage well with skeptics? mean, what do you think? You had some Christians in your life, you said they were strong, they were solid, they were standing on something foundational. You mentioned that they knew who they were. You know, there was a solidity to them.
Anh Le (01:26:55.796)
You know what I would say is that just be love. God is love. And sometimes we get into like the whole judgmental thing and thinking that, you you do want to speak the truth in love. And don’t try to be like the world. If you be like the world, a person like me would have, I would have never seen Jesus if they weren’t peculiar people. If they weren’t different, I would have never seen Jesus. That’s one.
Number two is, that be just flow in Jesus and let Jesus do it. It’s not like there’s something we need to change about ourselves. Just let Jesus flow. Jesus wants to reach them. Let Jesus do it through you. That’s number two. And when you’re talking to someone who’s a skeptic, be patient and don’t lose patience. That’s not gonna go well. That’s what happened with the other guy. And be patient with those who don’t know Christ and let them challenge you, let them insult you, let them, that’s what they did to Jesus. And I insulted, I was wagging my finger, but I eventually came to know Christ because they endured my bad behavior. So, you’re gonna, expect to be persecuted. Expect to be persecuted, but don’t be like, my gosh, you’re persecuting me, like, let me go hide in the corner. No, live out loud. If it’s good, let it be good.
And if your Christian life isn’t good, then go, you’re not accessing it. That means it’s just like, you know, a tree is not getting water. You just go get water.
Jana Harmon (01:30:30.988)
Anybody can become a child of God. that’s, think, what I love about your story. And what you realized at that moment is that even you, no matter what your past was, that God loved you. Jesus loved you. He knew you, and He loved you. And if anyone hears anything today, whether they’re Christian or skeptical or not, know that Christ loves you and He just wants you to come to receive like you have received and then allow Him to live in and through you. So thank you so much, Anh, for your story. It’s incredible. It’s incredible. You’ve taken us a lot of different places, but at the end of the day, it is a life transformed and a life lived out in Christ and for Christ.
Anh Le (01:31:02.057)
Hmm.
Jana Harmon (01:31:29.222)
I’ve heard it said that nobody can live the Christian life except for Christ. Christ in and through them. that’s what your life looks like. It’s what it sounds like. And you have obviously given your life so that others can know Christ in them. So thank you so much for coming on.
Anh Le (01:31:49.235)
Yeah. You know, Dr. Jana, if I can mention one more thing, because we talked about the porn, we talked about the dream and all that stuff. What I discovered just to make it a full circle. When I came to know Christ, God started showing me that that was wrong, that it was actually committing adultery. Just even a look, even a look. they’re not even talking about just a look at another woman. You know, it’s like, my gosh. So I started trying to live a life of purity, empowered by the Holy Spirit and I was able to do that. I was able to get set free from my porn addiction and I was able to get married and you know live a life in marriage and it’s all I can say is not again too personal but it’s different, it’s better, everything is better and porn is definitely very destructive and it’s not reality. know reality is so much better. True love.
Jana Harmon (01:32:40.877)
Yeah.
Jana Harmon (01:32:45.216)
Yeah, true love. I love that and we will end on that. Thank you so much again, Anh, for coming on.
Anh Le (01:32:51.625)
Thanks so much, Dr. Jana.
Jana Harmon (00:08.514)
What our story leaves us with is the weight of trying to make life work on your own without God. When meaning has to be created, when identity has to be earned, when success and happiness feel fragile because everything depends on you. For many skeptics, life without God isn’t about rejection, it’s about self-reliance. It’s about doing the best you can with the tools you’ve been given. And sometimes that work until it doesn’t.
Here at eX-skeptic, we share unlikely stories of belief, stories of people who once tried to carry life alone and who found themselves surprised by something or someone they never expected. If today’s conversation raised questions for you, we’ve created curated playlists on our YouTube channel organized around life’s biggest questions, including, is there more to life than this? You can explore these at your own pace. You can also follow eX-skeptic on social media to help these stories reach others who may be quietly asking the same questions.
And if you’d like to support this work, our merch helps sustain the ministry and start conversations beyond this episode. All the links are in the show notes. If you’d like to reach us directly, can email us at info at exskeptic.org. Thanks again for listening, and I hope you’ll join us again next time for another unlikely story of belief.
